Saturday, October 20, 2007

How do you pronounce....

There are few things more contentious within Legion fandom than the "how do you pronounce..." discussions that used to come up. Back in the olden days, when we only had one or two continuities to worry about, there were pretty much only two places to discuss the Legion online: Usenet's rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh [aka "rac.dc.lsh"] group and the LSH-L mailing list (both of which are still around, but only as shadows of their former selves in terms of traffic). Web-based message boards were really just starting out but had not built up a base yet, and other discussion areas like AOL, Compuserve, GEnie, and others like them were smaller pay-sites. (See this early post of mine here discussing the history of Legion online fandom.)

I got involved online in April 1995, and I have a large archive of some of the more interesting things from the mailing list over the years - some of which is even worth reposting here, which I'll do from time to time. One of them, as suggested on the LSH episode 2.04 comments, was a poll posted to the list and to rac.dc.lsh, asking people how they pronounce certain Legion-related names. Back then, we had this thing called the "Floating Pronunciation Flamewar", where the "flamewar" floated from one forum to the other, disappearing for a while and then popping back up. The one name most likely to spark (no pun intended) this flamewar was the seemingly innocuous question "How do you pronounce Ayla?" On one side were the "rhymes with Layla" faction and on the other were the "sounds like eye-la" group.

A well-meaning but misguided guy named Mike Morris put together The Official Legion Pronounciation Poll (misguided because he thinks it's pronounced "eye-la"), posted to rac.dc.lsh and LSH-L on Sept. 3, 1995. Put your own answers in the comments section, please.



THE OFFICIAL LEGION PRONOUNCIATION POLL

Choose the pronounciation of your choice, or if it is not listed, write it in. One vote per person, please. I will post the results in about 2 weeks both here and in racd.lsh.

To the voting booths.....(and I apologize if some of my choices are ambiguous
- this was not as easy as you think)...

1) Vidar
a) VEE-dar
b) VY-dar
c) VIH-dar
d) vee-DAR
e) vy-DAR
f) vih-DAR
g) other:___________

2) Khund
a) koond
b) kund
c) other:___________

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side
b) dark-seed
c) other:___________

4) Bgztl
a) bee-GIZZ-tle
b) big-zittle
c) BIGGS-tle
d) other:___________

5) (Thom) Kallor
a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")
b) KAL-lore
c) kal-LORE
d) kuh-LORE
e) other:___________

6) (Tasmia) Malor
a) MAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")
b) MAL-lore
c) mal-LORE
d) muh-LORE
e) other:___________

7) Querl (Dox)
a) curl
b) rhymes with "squirrel" (2 syllables)
c) kwerl
d) Carol
e) other:___________

8) Jan (Arrah)
a) yon (swedish-like)
b) Jan (Brady-like)
c) other:___________

9) (Jan) Arrah
a) air-uh
b) are-uh
c) other:___________

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh
b) car-uh
c) other:___________

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh
b) tine-yuh
c) other:___________

12) Imra (Ardeen)
a) ime-ra
b) im-ra
c) other:___________

13) Gim (Allon)
a) Jim
b) gim (hard "g")
c) other:___________

14) (Gim) Allon
a) Allen
b) AL-lon
c) uh-LON
c) other:___________

15) Mysa (Nal)
a) miss-a
b) mice-a
c) other:___________

16) Mon-El
a) mun-el
b) moan-el
c) rhymes with "John L."
d) other:___________

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
a) Eye-la
b) rhymes with "Layla"
c) other:___________



Please post your answers in the comments section. In a week or so I'll post the original poll results, and I've got some other good flashback stuff in the works.

21 comments:

Tim said...

I've long been curious about some of these. There is nothing more jarring that hearing someone at the local comic specialty shoppe discussing your favorite book/character with a completely different pronunciation than the one you have in your head! My choices:

1) Vidar
b) VY-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
d) other:Ba-GIZZ-tle

5) (Thom) Kallor
d) kuh-LORE

6) (Tasmia) Malor
d) muh-LORE

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
b) are-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
b) AL-lon

15) Mysa (Nal)
c) other: MY-sa

16) Mon-El
a) mun-el

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
a) Eye-la
(Yup, I'm one of those...

kenaustin said...

This subject still crops up about once every six months or so on the DC boards.

1) Vidar
b) VY-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
d) other: beh-GIZZ-tle

5) (Thom) Kallor
c) kal-LORE
Also "Thom" as Tom

6) (Tasmia) Malor
c) mal-LORE

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
b) are-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
b) car-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
c) uh-LON

15) Mysa (Nal)
c) other: meece-uh

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

Bill Meisel said...

This is interesting.

1a
2a
3b
4 like BOOGzuhtuhl
5b
6b
7c
8b
9a
10b
11b
12 like EEMrah
13a
14a
15b
16c
17 I can't remember now since I read your Layla comment.

Craig said...

1. d) vee-DAR
2. b) kund
3. always read it as b) dark-seed until I heard it pronounced in one of the DCAU cartoons as a) dark-side
4. d) other: buh-GIT-zle (I know, that doesn't even match the spelling, but its stuck in my head now)
5. a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")
6. b) MAL-lore
7. c) kwerl
8. b) Jan (Brady-like)
9. a) air-uh
10. a) care-uh
11. a) tin-yuh
12. b) im-ra
13. b) gim (hard "g")
14. b) AL-lon
15. c) other: rhymes with Liza (as in Minnelli)
16. c) rhymes with "John L."
17. a) Eye-la (sorry - I hope we can still be friends)

Craig said...

I wonder if they have these debates as they are making the cartoon? Do they have an official document that delineates these things, or do they let it come up during the voice recordings?

Matthew E said...

1. b) VYE-dar
2. a) koond
3. a) dark-side
4. d) b@gz-t@l (where @ represents the schwa sound)
5. a) KAL-ler
6. a) MAL-ler
7. b) and c). They're the same, right?
8. b) Jan
9. a) air-uh
10. a) care-uh
11. a) tin-yuh
12. b) im-ra
13. b) hard-g
14. b) AL-lon
15. c) mize-a
16. c) John-L
17. b) Layla

Jonathan Miller said...

I'm amused that you got into the Usenet groups just as I got out of them. (Low Signal to Noise ratio + less time on my hands = bye bye RAC*...)

1. F
2. B
3. A (This was also Kirby's pronunciation)
4. C
5. A
6. A
7. C
8. B
9. C "Air-Ah" (Well, really aiRAH, generally)
10. A (pronunciation used in all official media stuff--the movie, the Superman and JLU toon and Smallville, so I think I'm safe with this one)
11. A
12. B
13. B (Assuming hard G, with the Hebrew influence)
14. B (Same reason)
15. B
16. C
17. B, of course!

DrWorm said...

These are how I've been pronouncing them over the years. Upon closer looking while answering these, I can see I may be wrong on a few (learning bits of German and Japanese over the years has wreaked havoc on my English pronunciation)
1.c
2.a
3.a
4.c
5.b
6.a
7.c
8.b
9.b
10.a
11.a
12.b
13.b
14.b
15.b
16.c
17.a

RAB said...

On a side note: following that link back to your old post -- and from there on to some other early posts of yours -- was pretty mind-blowing. There were some names in them I really wasn't expecting to come across. In retrospect, I'm surprised at how few of the Legion APA crowd made it into the online scene...but I guess they're all horribly horribly old now...

Michael said...

RAB - of the Legion APA crowd, I only know a few names. Val Beasley used to be on Compuserve and through common friends in fandom we have met a few times in San Diego. Mike Flynn was online at least through late 2006. Kevin Gould has a myspace page and an AOL page (which looks old). Jay Zilber is online, and even Interlac itself has a home page - but they're still on paper. Harry B used to have a page but it's gone now. That's about the limit of who I know of, anyone else you'll have to google yourself.

But yeah, very few of them (as far as I know) joined the online communities like Usenet, Compuserve, AOL, message boards, mailing lists, etc. Chris Companik was very active on the LSH-L mailing list, though.

I just found interlac.org, which appears to be Jay Zilber's. There are a bunch of photos there starting in the late 1970s if you'd recognize anyone.

Eric said...

Vary nice post and fun! Now if someone could just point me to an official pronunciation of Donna Troy's alter ego, Troia....

1) Vidar
c) VIH-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side
(Wasn't this settled with the Superfriends: The Legendary Super Powers Show and the later Superman animated series?)

4) Bgztl
d) other: bij-ih-zuh-tuhl
(not sure how to properly do the phonetic spelling)

5) (Thom) Kallor
b) KAL-lore

6) (Tasmia) Malor
c) mal-LORE

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
c) other: Uh-RAH

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
a) Jim

14) (Gim) Allon
a) Allen

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."
(I never liked the whole "'Muhn' because he was named for Monday" pronunciation.)

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"
(Of course! :)

Terence Chua said...

How I've always prounced them:

1. d) vee-DAR

2. a) koond

3. a) dark-side

4. d) other: BIGGS-til

5. b) KAL-lore

6. d) muh-LORE

7. c) kwerl

8. b) Jan (Brady-like)

9. a) air-uh

10. b) car-uh

11. a) tin-yuh

12. b) im-ra

13. b) gim (hard "g")

14. b) AL-lon

15. a) miss-a

16. a) mun-el

17. b) rhymes with "Layla"

Bill D. said...

1) Vidar
b) VY-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
c) BIGGS-tle

5) (Thom) Kallor
b) KAL-lore

6) (Tasmia) Malor
a) MAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
a) air-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
a) Allen

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

Siskoid said...

Here's how I always pronounced them...

1) Vidar
a) VEE-dar

2) Khund
c) other: Not qui Koond, but Khound, like in Kundera.

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
b) big-zittle (though often misread as big-tizzle)

5) (Thom) Kallor
e) other: Kay-lore

6) (Tasmia) Malor
b) MAL-lore

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
a) air-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
b) car-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
c) other: Teen-yah

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
a) Jim

14) (Gim) Allon
c) uh-LON

15) Mysa (Nal)
c) other: My-za

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

But that's me.

Tom said...

1) Vidar
b) VY-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
d) other:_Buh-getz-til_

5) (Thom) Kallor
a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

6) (Tasmia) Malor
a) MAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
b) are-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
b) AL-lon

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

and finally, the one that started it all.....

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
a) Eye-la

Jobal said...

1) Vidar
f) vih-DAR

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
d) other:: big-GIZZ-tle

5) (Thom) Kallor
a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

6) (Tasmia) Malor
b) MAL-lore

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
a) air-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
a) Jim

14) (Gim) Allon
a) Allen

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

MaGnUs said...

1) Vidar
c) VIH-dar

2) Khund
b) kund

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
d) other: I just say "Bgztl"

5) (Thom) Kallor
a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

6) (Tasmia) Malor
a) MAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

7) Querl (Dox)
b) rhymes with "squirrel" (2 syllables)

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like) (including his girlish locks)

9) (Jan) Arrah
b) are-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
b) AL-lon

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

Juan said...

This is how I always heard them in my head:

a) VEE-dar

b) kund

a) dark-side

b) big-zittle

b) KAL-lore

d) muh-LORE
(I ignore the h in Thom, too)

c) kwerl
("Carol"??? Really??)

b) Jan (Brady-like)

a) air-uh

a) care-uh

a) tin-yuh

b) im-ra

a) Jim

a) Allen

b) mice-a

a) mun-el

b) rhymes with "Layla"

Dave Van Domelen said...

1) f
2) c (khoond, with kh being more aspirated than just a hard k)
3) a
4) d (BUGZ-til) (I've heard it's supposed to be "bugtussle")
5) b (but it rhymes with Valor!)
6) b (ditto!)
7) c (which rhymes with squirrel!)
8) c (Yan)
9) a
10) a
11) c (TEEN-yuh)
12) c (IM-ruh)
13) a
14) b
15) c (MY-suh)
16) b
17) b

Michael said...

OK, since nobody has responded in the last few days, I'll chime in with mine and consider the poll closed.

1) Vidar
b) VY-dar

2) Khund
a) koond

3) Darkseid
a) dark-side

4) Bgztl
c) BIGGS-tle

5) (Thom) Kallor
a) KAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

6) (Tasmia) Malor
a) MAL-ler (rhymes with "Valor")

7) Querl (Dox)
c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah)
b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah
a) air-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl)
a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo)
a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen)
b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon)
b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon
a) Allen

15) Mysa (Nal)
b) mice-a

16) Mon-El
c) rhymes with "John L."

17) Ayla (Ranzz)
b) rhymes with "Layla"

darkpoole said...

1) Vidar: b) VY-dar

2) Khund: b) kund

3) Darkseid: a) dark-side

4) Bgztl: b) big-zittle

5) (Thom) Kallor: b) KAL-lore

6) (Tasmia) Malor: b) MAL-lore

7) Querl (Dox): c) kwerl

8) Jan (Arrah): b) Jan (Brady-like)

9) (Jan) Arrah: a) air-uh

10) Kara (Supergirl): a) care-uh

11) Tinya (Wazzo): a) tin-yuh

12) Imra (Ardeen): b) im-ra

13) Gim (Allon): b) gim (hard "g")

14) (Gim) Allon: b) AL-lon

15) Mysa (Nal): c) other: MY-zah

16) Mon-El: c) rhymes with "John L."

17) Ayla (Ranzz): rhymes with "Layla" (obviously!)