Friday, August 15, 2008

L3W Pre-Annotations part 1

Update #1, Aug. 15: added some more code names, added names of readers who suggested characters from "Bits of Legionnaire Business", added Command Kid



Here's part 1 of my "Legion of Three Worlds" pre-annotations. Up first, the list of Pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires with their creators and first appearances. Part 2 will be the Post-Zero Hour Legion, and Part 3 will be the current Post-Infinite Crisis Legion. This is so I don't make the L3W annotations bigger than they are already likely to be. Anyone appearing who's not on these lists, I'll cover in the body of the annotations.

Some notes:
  1. For purposes of this list, I'm assuming that the character was created equally by the writer and penciller (which may not be the case every time). Exception: Dawnstar was created by Grell and Levitz, though Grell left the book right before he drew the issue. And I'm not counting where the character was suggested in a "Bits of Legionnaire Business" column, unless you think I should.
  2. I'm also assuming that a character's creator remains the same regardless of which continuity he/she came from - so for example, all the different Garth Ranzzes from pre-Crisis, post-Zero Hour, and the current version, were all created by Binder and Plastino.
  3. I'm not a masochist - I'm going to use resources that are already out there. And for this list, I have to thank Nightcrawler over at Legion World for putting together a list of "every Legionnaire, ever" since that's what George Perez has said he wanted to do. That's where this list starts.
  4. However, from that list, I'm excluding those pre-ZH instances where villains joined via some sort of trickery (like Universo, the LSV, Command Kid, and Dynamo Boy) or when people were "allowed" to join for some reason (the Murran spies, Proty and Comet in human form) while keeping in the Honorary Legionnaires and Reservists.
  5. I'm also excluding the Imaginary Story/Alternate Universe/Elseworlds/animated versions of the Legion (which means no Adult Legion joiners).

There's going to be a LOT of people in this series. L3W inker Scott Koblish said on LegionWorld that "I'm pretty sure George will get 'em all in there. The first issue has cameos galore, quite a number of them not even listed in the big list at the head of this thread, and the second issue blows the doors off the first. Hang tight Legion fans!"

So here goes... Pre-Annotations part 1a, the Pre-Zero Hour Legion, which includes the Pre-Crisis version (Adventure 247 through the Crisis), the post-Crisis version (Crisis through the Five Year Gap), the Glorithverse version, the SW6 Legionnaires, and the Lightning Saga version. I'm only including their original or most common code name.

In order of joining:

Pre-Crisis

  1. Cosmic Boy / Polestar

ADV 247

Otto Binder

Al Plastino

  1. Saturn Girl

ADV 247

Otto Binder

Al Plastino

  1. Lightning Lad

ADV 247

Otto Binder

Al Plastino

  1. Triplicate Girl / Duo Damsel / Duplicate Damsel / Una / Triad

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Phantom Girl / Phase / Apparition

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Chameleon Boy / Chameleon

ACT 267

Otto Binder

Wayne Boring

  1. Colossal Boy / Leviathan

ACT 267

Otto Binder

Wayne Boring

  1. Invisible Kid

ACT 267

Otto Binder

Wayne Boring

  1. Star Boy / Starman

ADV 282

Otto Binder

George Papp

  1. Supergirl

ACT 252

Otto Binder

Al Plastino

  1. Brainiac 5

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Shrinking Violet / Virus

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Superboy / Superman

MF 101 / ADV 247

Jerry Siegel

Joe Shuster

  1. Sun Boy / Inferno

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Bouncing Boy

ACT 276

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Ultra Boy / Emerald Dragon

SBOY 98

Jerry Siegel

Curt Swan

  1. Pete Ross

SBOY 86 / SBOY 98

Robert Bernstein

George Papp

  1. Mon-El / Valor

SBOY 89

Robert Bernstein

George Papp

  1. Matter-Eater Lad

ADV 301

Jerry Siegel

John Forte

  1. Element Lad / Alchemist

ADV 307

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Lightning Lass / Light Lass / Pulse / Gossamer

ADV 308

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Elastic Lad

SMAN 13 / SPJO 72

Jerry Siegel

Leo Nowak

  1. Dream Girl

ADV 317

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. "False Pretenses Lad"

ADV 327

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Command Kid

ADV 328

Jerry Siegel

Jim Mooney

  1. Kid Psycho

SBOY 125

Otto Binder

George Papp

  1. Princess Projectra / Queen Projectra / Sensor Girl

ADV 346

Jim Shooter

Sheldon Moldoff

  1. Nemesis Kid

ADV 346

Jim Shooter

Sheldon Moldoff

  1. Ferro Lad / Ferro

ADV 346

Jim Shooter

Sheldon Moldoff

  1. Karate Kid

ADV 346

Jim Shooter

Sheldon Moldoff

  1. Insect Queen

SBOY 10 / ADV 355

Bill Finger

John Sikela

  1. Rond Vidar / Green Lantern

ADV 349

Jim Shooter

Curt Swan

  1. Shadow Lass

ADV 365

Jim Shooter

Curt Swan

  1. Chemical King

ADV 371

Jim Shooter

Curt Swan

  1. Timber Wolf / Furball

ADV 327

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Wildfire / ERG-1 / NRG

SBOY 195

Cary Bates

Dave Cockrum

  1. Tyroc

SBOY 216

Cary Bates

Mike Grell

  1. Dawnstar / Bounty

SBOY 226

Paul Levitz

Mike Grell

  1. Blok

SBOY 253

Gerry Conway

Joe Staton

  1. Invisible Kid II

LSHv2 An1

Paul Levitz

Keith Giffen

  1. White Witch / Jewel

ADV 350

E. Nelson Bridwell

Curt Swan

Post-Crisis

  1. Polar Boy

ADV 306

Edmond Hamilton, Buddy La Vigne

John Forte

  1. Magnetic Kid II

ADV 335

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Tellus

LSHv3 9

Paul Levitz

Steve Lightle

  1. Quislet

LSHv2 304

Paul Levitz

Keith Giffen

Five Year Gap

  1. Nightwind

LSHv2 272

Gerry Conway, Robert Harris

Steve Ditko

  1. Impulse I / Kent Shakespeare

LSHv4 12

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Karate Kid II

LSHv3 13

Paul Levitz

Steve Lightle

  1. Atmos

LSHv3 32

Paul Levitz

Greg LaRocque

  1. Echo

ADV 355

Jim Shooter

Curt Swan

  1. Crystal Kid

LSHv2 272

Gerry Conway, Robert Cohen

Steve Ditko

  1. Reflecto II

ADV 355

Jim Shooter

Curt Swan

  1. Fire Lad

ADV 306

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Chlorophyll Kid

ADV 306

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Porcupine Pete

SBOY 201

Cary Bates

Dave Cockrum

  1. Infectious Lass

SBOY 201

Cary Bates

Dave Cockrum

  1. Visi-Lad

LSHv3 An3

Paul Levitz

Greg LaRocque

  1. Stone Boy

ADV 306

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

  1. Color Kid

ADV 342

Edmond Hamilton, Jeff Greenberg, Leslie Leibow

Curt Swan

  1. Storm Boy

ADV 301

Jerry Siegel

John Forte

  1. Calamity King

ADV 342

Edmond Hamilton

Curt Swan

Glorithverse

  1. Laurel Gand / Andromeda

LSHv4 5

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Kono

LSHv4 2

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Celeste Rockfish / Celeste McCauley / Neon

LSHv4 6

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Kid Quantum I

LSHv4 33

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

David A. Williams

  1. Catspaw

LSHv4 33

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

David A. Williams

  1. Computo II

LSHv2 An1

Paul Levitz

Keith Giffen

  1. Dragonmage

LSHv4 41

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

Chris Sprouse

  1. Devlin O'Ryan

LSHv4 6

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Ivy

LSHv4 12

Keith Giffen, Tom & Mary Bierbaum, Al Gordon

Keith Giffen

  1. Firefist

LSHv4 44

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

Stuart Immonen

  1. Veilmist

LSHv4 44

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

Stuart Immonen

  1. Blood Claw

LSHv4 44

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

Stuart Immonen

  1. Flederweb

LSHv4 44

Tom & Mary Bierbaum

Stuart Immonen

  1. Spider Girl / Wave

ADV 323

Jerry Siegel, Jim Tilley

John Forte

Lightning Saga

  1. Chameleon Girl

LSHv2 287

Paul Levitz

Keith Giffen

  1. Night Girl

ADV 306

Edmond Hamilton

John Forte

16 comments:

Matthew E said...

This chart, and its companions, will be extremely useful to me. I've wanted someplace where I could look up creators of characters for a long time.

Hal Shipman said...

I wonder about Laurel Gand. If you're going to include Valor as being the same as Mon-El, I'd think that she would be the same as Supergirl. Especially since she was given essentially the same "joining" story.

Anonymous said...

See here's the thing that I worry about... every Legionnaire *ever* is going to appear. That's all nice and good. But how many of those characters are going to get any kind of story or character moment? I mean, I'd love to see Quislet and Tellus back, but what's the big deal if all they get to do is hang out in a panel or two and bop someone?
I suspect that we'll get maybe a dozen characters with any kind of significant screen time or story/character moments.
I don't have any confidence that Geoff Johns can handle the big cast. I've enjoyed his runs on single character books (Flash and Stars and STRIPE), but I have been way less impressed when he tackles a group book (Teen Titans, JSA) because the things that I look for in a group book don't often appear in his stories.

Not that I'm not jazzed to see the book. I'm totally looking forward to it and seeing all that Perez goodness.

murr

Michael said...

Hal - it's a judgment call. In my opinion, Laurel Gand is different enough to warrant being a new character because of what her backstory was when she first appeared.

But I'm struggling with things like whether the post-ZH versions of Projectra and Wildfire, for example, are unique. Is Jeka the snake the same as Princess Projectra, just with a different physical body? Do Bates/Cockrum get credit for co-creating the Atom'X/Blastoff version of Wildfire?

And where do I draw the line? Do I give Mark Waid and Barry Kitson co-creator status for their version of Colossal Boy/Micro Lad? Do I give Binder/Plastino credit for the current version of Supergirl? What about the female version of Kid Quantum? Who created the villain Superboy-Prime - Siegel/Shuster, Maggin/Swan (from DC Comics Presents), or Johns/etc. (from Infinite Crisis)?

kenaustin said...

I don't envy you your endeavor, but I'm glad you're putting forth the effort to do it.

Personally, I'm "Legionally Anal-Retentive"[tm pending] enough that I would attribute all of the creators involved with a particular version of a character when said character is significantly different to the original.

As per your examples...Sensor and Wildfire would have the original creators credited, and the creators involved with the distinctive changes. Ditto Micro Lad, and Superboy-Prime. Kid Quantum II was a unique character on her own, and even referenced the original in her backstory. I would list her separately as I would list the Flashes. Supergirl has stayed pretty much the same throughout.

Good luck!

Hal Shipman said...

Fair enough. I think in the case of Post ZH & Waid/Kitson (is that 3-boot?), you'd have to do independent lists (because of the joining order differences) with references back to this one for first appearances/creators of the new versions.

I'd say that any character that clearly filled the role of 1st series character would be credited to the original, even if they are supposed to be "different" (PoZH Sensor, Atom'X/Blastoff & Ferro and then Waid/Kitson's Micro Lad, for example). The only one I could see as being a problem would be Shikari, but I never bought the comments that she wasn't supposed to be Dawnstar, so I'd link back to the original.

Your other examples were distinct within the continuity from their predessors, so they would get their own entries. Female Kid Quantum was distinct from James Cullen, so that would be Waid in the PoZH. Prime would be Maggin/Swan. If nothing else, they both met their predecessors within continuity.

But that's just me. Great resource you've got going.

Michael said...

Murray - I look at it like how Perez drew Crisis on Infinite Earths and JLA/Avengers. Everyone is there, but you can't have everyone front and center. I mean just look at this table: even if you remove Pete, Lana, and Jimmy, you've still got over 70 characters, and that's just from the various flavors of the pre-ZH continuity. We'll be pushing 200 by the time I get the third one up.


Ken - you said I would attribute all of the creators involved with a particular version of a character when said character is significantly different to the original. I like that, and I think I'll use that as my guideline, where "significantly different" is my call. I think Shikari and Dawnstar fit that criteria, as do Supergirl and Andromeda, but the two Supergirls don't, and neither do Silver Age Ferro Lad and Post-ZH Ferro.

I have to draw the line somewhere.

Jim Drew said...

I say use footnotes or credit "major revision creators" or some such. More info (that doesn't clutter) is typically a good thing.

There are some curious codename inclusions/lapses in there. Timber Wolf/Furball, but not Andromeda? Pulse, Wave, Polestar, Time Trapper,...

Should Mentalla get a listing? She appeared to be a posthumous member via inclusion of her statue in the Hall of Heroes.

For purposes of Lo3W, It's kind of a given that we're unlikely to see anyone after #44 on the list, except those who were previously seen in continuity. Might see Myg or Computo (Computo II, actually, yes?), Spider Girl will undoubtedly be in the LSV, and some more of the Subs who became 5YG members are likely.

Michael said...

Jim - I've added the other code names, including the SW6 versions, back in.

Mentalla was not a member, but she was honored with a statue for her sacrifice. But after further review, I added Command Kid to the list, but I'm still keeping Dynamo Boy and the LSV off the list.

I've also added the "suggested by" names from the Bits of Legionnaire Business, changing my mind from my original thoughts, for Spider-Girl, Polar Boy, Color Kid, Nightwing, and Crystal Kid. The other BLB suggestions went to villains, Heroes of Lallor, etc.

murrfox said...

Hi Mike, I get that everyone will get an appearance, and I'm cool with not everyone getting a story moment or beat all their own... but at the same time, if it's a story about the Legion, I want to see alot of characters get involved in the story (in the way that Levitz did in GDS). I'm not convinced that Geoff is going to focus his story on more than half a dozen Legionnaires... maybe ten tops. And that just misses the point of the Legion, in my opinion.
Still, we'll see. I'm totally prepared to eat my words next Wednesday.

murr

Scott Koblish said...

Good luck with the Annotations! I just did a cursory glance at the first 15 pages and you've got your work cut out for you- I hid 2 Nina's in the book, and if you spot them, you will get ... well, I don't know what kind of award there is for something like that, but congrats if you can find them...

You will see a lot of characters get their moments in the sunshine. It's a big cast, but Geoff and George are working hard to get everybody the love they deserve-

Michael said...

Thanks, Scott! I'll be looking forward to the meltdown.

I hope you'll come back and let us know what or who we've missed, or for corrections, without giving anything away for future issues.

Dave P. said...

I tend to agree with "anonymous" about putting every character in just for the sake of putting them in. While the major fight scenes are a sight to behold, they can be "too busy."
The one thing I'm hanging onto from all of Geoff Johns' comments is this: "I love the Legion."
P.S. Maybe I'm missing something--who or what are Ninas?

Jim Drew said...

It's a reference to caricaturist Hirschfeld. He puts his daughter Nina's name into each image.

murrfox said...

Hey Dave,
Lots of creators "love the Legion", but that doesn't always translate into cool stories.

Waid loves the Legion, and while I love the threeboot, I'm not as fond of the reboot.

Giffen loves the Legion (though I've always enjoyed what he's done with the team, not everyone shares that feeling).

murr

Dave P. said...

I realize that, murr. I'm just hoping for the best. I guess I am just different. I'm not gaga over Jim Shooter's new stuff like a lot seem to be--to many florgs, foobs, and noobs--it just seems silly. I've not been real impressed with the story lines either. I love his old stuff, but the new? Not so much. I understand what you are saying, though.